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Yeah, but that was pretty damn pretentious answer for "I'm lazy". I don't care why you can't be arsed. I know profiles are a pain in the ass, but playing it off as some kind of hoity-toity bullocks is just redonk girl.
---------- Post added at 04:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 AM ----------
I've also found crack on GWs and that crack comes in the form of Sanctum Sprint . . . FUQ YA!
---------- Post added at 05:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 AM ----------
Sorry, I really shouldn't tease.
1. Trust me, I don't know what rock you live under, but common sense is rare. A cheap proof would be Justin Bieber's popularity.
2. Ok, Mike is wearing panties AND a skirt. It is hinted NOWHERE that he is a cross-dresser. Updating his profile to add that fact in after this kind of fuck up doesn't make it any less of a fuck up. Why is Mike suddenly a cross-dresser? Why has this never been even remotely addressed in the past? Why did nobody else notice the fact that the man was wearing a skirt until the point it was mentioned? Because he didn't. Mike wearing a skirt and panties doesn't make him less of a man, Mike putting on a skirt and panties makes him less of a Mike.
But if you MUST have a completely accurate example. If Mike starts getting mood-swingy, someone inquires and he says it's because of his period, THAT is a complete and total fuck up in his gender portrayal. I don't care if you're post-op, if you're wearing a skirt, if you put on make up and tweek your brow, a man does NOT have periods. It's just not physically possible.
2A. Alright, I guess I went with a limited understanding. What if Mike is Gynophobic, has had no psychiatric help for his issue with women, has a shyness towards women based on this irrational fear and all of a sudden he's confident mcflirtypants? You could go with a bullshit excuse like "it's because she's the girl of his dreams and the mere sight of her made him overcome his fear", but that's exactly what it is; a bullshit, cheesy, borderline retarded excuse. Gradual character development makes sense, rapid character development, when it benefits the plot, can be borderline accepted. But sudden, nigh-instantaneous changes in a character made with no prior build-up, no justification and no plot-serving motivation, JUST. DOESN'T. WORK.
In this example; it just means either a) you're incapable of properly portraying a gynophobic
b) you're desperate to give Mike a chance at getting laid even if it means forsaking all the traits you've given him YOURSELF.
c) you fucked up.
Actually, all 3 answers really mean "you fucked up". If your character can't keep a simile of consistency for whatever reason, you should not have portrayed him that way. The reason for character profiles is that you ATTEMPT to keep a semblance of the character as he was from the beginning of the story. Mike may overcome his gynophobia with time, Mike may then get confused between his briefs and a girl's panties, realize they're really comfy, and slowly turn into a cross-dresser, Mike may learn his daddy was a unicorn and that he was a winged centaur all along, slowly learning the wonderful power of magic and friendship through bizarre quests with a heroin addict and a lesbian wolf, I don't care what happens to Mike's character if it's justified, gradual, plot-serving and logical in the vacuum of the RP. But if Mike goes from "tough masculine archetype with an irrational fear of women" to "cross-dressing confident flirtatious unicorn lovechild" within the span of 3 posts, someone's either retarded or heavily under the influence of LSD.
---------- Post added at 04:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------
Also, this is a discussion on points of view, not a full blown argument, I'd appreciate if you limited the sass to the necessary minimum.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Those are simply examples of a poorly played character, not a gender though. Those are consistency issues, a lack of experience or practice on a players part to play a consistent character (portraying consistent attributes according to their profile). It doesn't mean they're bad at playing a gender, because in all those examples the male character is still no less his gender because of the things he does. It simply means, according to the characters profile, the player is playing them inconsistently and it isn't a reflection of poor gender portrayal.
---------- Post added at 04:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------
I'll sass if I want to honey!
The thing is that when you play a character of the opposite sex, there are certain things you have to take into account which you wouldn't have to worry about if you were playing a character of the same sex. Being BAD at playing the opposite sex simply means you're failing to take into account the core differences between that character and yourself. For example, a man - while both sexes can giggle as you've made abundantly clear - will (under most circumstances, we're assuming this is a generic male character, not an out of the closet homosexual, a cross dresser, a feminine yadda yadda yadda) try to avoid doing so so as not to be shun by other men who consider - for the most part - the behavior to be lacking in manliness. Let's go again with Mike, our gynophobic but otherwise textbook tough guy. He wouldn't giggle, he'd chuckle, laugh heartily, etc. But not giggle. His hips don't sway when he walks, most men (except for those few exceptional examples) have very little hip sway occur when they walk. He doesn't ask his buddy for a piggy back ride when his ankles are sore from walking in those damned shoes too long, because he's not wearing high heels! Besides, the behavior would likely not be accepted by the kind of people someone like him hangs around. He doesn't wear perfume, he wears cologne, if anything at all. He has hair in inconvenient places which he doesn't trim because he's not some metrosexual wannabe. He doesn't wear skinny jeans because his genitalia can't breathe in those damn things and on the off chance he does, it will be apparent he's not comfortable in them. His face is not smooth as a baby's bottom because even if he was clean shaven this morning he must have a little scruff going on by now. If he goes to the club, it's not to "dance with his friends in a circle around their shoes and purses", it's to pick up a chick or have a drink. When he goes to a public bathroom, he pees in a urinal, the only reason he would not (because he's not shy when women are not around) would be because he also has to take a dump. He's mature, but he still has to hold in a laugh when someone farts in public. He doesn't hug his friends with a kiss on the cheek as a form of greeting, they high five or fist bump. He doesn't shop with his friends, not for clothes anyway. He wears black and gray not because he likes the colors, but because he has no clue what matches and doesn't so he doesn't take chances. In the shower, he doesn't use conditioner, he uses head and shoulder. Not because he has a dandruff problem, because it rhymes with black and decker. If he cuts himself shaving, the cut's gonna be on his face, not the hollow of his knee. When he gets way too drunk, he doesn't start making out with his better-looking friends, he starts a fight. When he sleeps over at a friend's, they don't have a pillow fight, they play videogames and drink beer until one of them passes out, then draw dicks on his face before going to sleep. When he has a flat tire, he doesn't call towing, he takes out the jack and his spare. If he has long nails, it's because he plays the guitar, not because it's 'cute'. He likes his steak medium rare, next to his other stake. When he goes to his lover's place and badly needs to fart, he doesn't hold it in, he tries to blame it on the dog. When he goes to the bar, he gets a beer or a glass of whiskey, not a martini. He had a staring contest with the sun once, just to see how long he'd last. When people start arm wrestling, he doesn't back away, he rolls up his sleeve and takes a seat. Mike does not always drink, but when he does, he prefers dos ecquis.
---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------
Then sass elsewhere.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Can you break up your paragraphs?
From the gist of what I was able to get through. When a male identified character preforms any action or trait, though deemed emasculate, it does not change the fact the character is still male. You can not impose your personal view of masculinity on a character and when a player fails to beat your personal "male litmus test" assume the player is unable to play a male character.
I'll take my character Winsor, who is a hermaphrodite (has both male and female reproductive organs) that identifies as female, she is a she according to herself. However, Winsor preforms very masculine actions and has a mix of masculine and feminine personality traits. Even though, she strongly identifies as a female. Does this mean my self identified female hermaphrodite is being played wrong?
How about my character Addison, a traditionally feminine character (appearances) who identifies as female. She is a character that preforms and acts in typical very masculine ways. She is aggressive, forward, sexually liberal, authoritative and personality wise very hard, all very male traits. Am I playing a bad female because she acts with more typically seen as masculine traits?
Jeffery is a space pirate, self identifies as male and more often than not is very masculine and aggressive/assertive to outsiders. His actions towards his younger crew, and those he identifies as his kids, are typically seen as very "mother hen" traits. He frets over them, is very gentle, deals with a lot of emotional baggage (both his crews, but his own, he has serious attachment issues) and preforms duties like cooking and cleaning like a female. Am I playing this character badly, is he a bad male because of his feminine traits though he is typically the opposite?
I personally do not think any of my characters are any less their gender, because they challenge their gender roles. Nor do I think I play any of those genders poorly, because they happen to break their gender roles.
Yes, there are actions and traits our culture sees a typically male or female / masculine or feminine. However, a lack of masculinity or femininity in a character doesn't make that character any less the gender they say they are. A heterosexual feminine male is still male and heterosexual. A pansexual female who looks masculine and acts feminine is still a female.
Continuity and consistency errors can lean to poorly balanced characters, that do not flow or feel right. Who in writing come off chunky and awkward. However, that doesn't mean the gender being portray is any less the gender. Nor does it mean the player can not portray the gender they've chosen. They're simply less experienced writers who happen write awkward dialog or descriptions.
The character is then a bad character in general and should be redesigned to be more consistent (you keep showing me consistency stuff, not anything about gender, because as I keep pointing out you can be male and do non-masculine thing and still be male). Gender can be portrayed however you want to portray it, because it isn't a linear black and white, male or female, masculine or feminine only concept. There are cultures on Earth with up to 15 different genders.
I think people simply do not play consistently and because of that lack of consistency or continuity the character feels weak in it's design. However, I don't think a male is not male because he lacks masculinity or vice versa for a female.
People are people, they do people things, and are not strictly bound by their gender roles the way you keep making them be.
Players just play poor characters. The characters gender though is no less whatever the player says the characters gender is. It is what it is, even if the characters traits are inconsistent, their gender is still male or female or whatever they want.
---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------
A inconsistent character is and always will be inconsistent. Doesn't matter what gender the character is.
A player who breaks continuity all the time is breaking continuity. Doesn't matter what gender the character is.
Poor writing skills and mechanics are poor writing skills and mechanics. Doesn't matter what gender the character is.
A male who looks masculine acts feminine is still a male. If the writing is consistent and continuity isn't broken, a character acting feminine and is male, is still male.
Bad players are bad players not because the gender they portray breaks the traditional gender roles our culture has, but because they are inconsistent, and break continuity in a way the harms the game.
---------- Post added at 06:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------
Do I think a female player who has a more delicate style of writing, who is portraying a male is doing it bad because she choose to use giggle over chuckle. No, if it is consistent then I don't care.
Do I think every verb typically consider feminine, but used to describe a male means the player can't play a male. No.
Last edited by Strude; 08-10-2013 at 12:03 AM.
Let's cut this argument short, shall we?
Fucking up in writing your character, no matter where they sit on the masculinity vs femininity spectrum, is bad. Actions traditionally belonging to the opposite gender tend to be difficult to portray accurately for those not belonging to that gender. Some are capable, others far less so.
The real issue is depicting your character to be a certain way, but making him or her behave differently from what you've described in their profile. Making your character change wildly without explanation, build-up or reason is also bad.
For instances, chances are if I made my female character flirt, the actions she'd perform would either come off as too parodist to be believable or unusually masculine for the character. Can I put extra effort in to make it come off as more accurate? Yes. Would I bother? Yes. Would most people? Probably not.
The fact of the matter is; every character can and will be different from everyone else. The important factor is the ability to stick to your character. After my prior description of Mike, if he ended up playing dolls with his daughter, he could still be Mike, but if he actually genuinely enjoy playing with dolls, he wouldn't be the Mike I made to begin with and would thus not be a proper 100% masculine figure as I had portrayed him to be. If some other male character enjoyed playing with dolls, but it was noted somewhere or at least hinted to, that character would still be a good character.
The issue is that female (or male) RPers have a wildly varying degree of difficulty sticking to male (or female) attributes. Jeffery could still be a very good parental figure by acting fatherly rather than motherly, but you chose to have him be motherly. Is it a personal preference? Is it because you have difficulty portraying fatherly traits? Is it because you've never given any thought to how a proper father should behave? I think it's the first of these options, but I don't know.
The point is; it would be a challenge even for you to portray a completely masculine character, it would be a challenge even for me to portray a completely feminine character. Is it because we're BAD at it? Not necessarily, it's because we're not used to that type of behavior. The matter isn't necessarily gender here, but behavior.
For example, it would probably be difficult for an average female RPer to adequately portray Mike, the character I've been using as an example. Just like it would be difficult for an average male RPer to adequately portray... Cinderella or whatever female diametric opposite of Mike you can think of. Often, attempts at using behaviors completely opposed to the way you see the world is difficult to perform without coming off as parodist, trying too hard or wrong.
I once was in an RP where my male character and another male RPer's female character had a romance going on. Let's call them Bob and Alice. Alice's attempt at flirting with Bob sometimes came off as excessive or brutish, not because the other male was a bad RPer, but because that's probably the methods he himself would use to flirt in a similar situation. When in doubt, RPers often think "what would I do?" or "what would logically work in this situation?" Because your gender, ideals, values, etc. Are different from your character's, you may end up with a result that works in your head, but clashes with the way your character should behave in this situation based on what you've built them up to be.
---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------
I just don't see why this argument is still going since we both seem to agree.
Continuity error = bad.
Playing a character opposite to yourself in every aspect = hard.
That's it.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
But we don't agree.
I don't think it is hard for anyone to play the opposite gender, or any other gender than their own. I don't think the majority of people find it difficult. Nor do I think the majority of female players have an issue properly portraying male characters accurately.
I don't know many female players who are incapable of convincingly and accurately portraying gender.
Do you find it all that difficult to play female characters right now?
Have you ever thought it was hard to portray a female properly?
Myself, I have never stopped and thought "damn playing this male character is hard" or "damn how do I do this properly". I've never in my 10 years of role playing thought a characters gender was hard to portray. Nor have I ever been told by a male player that my male character wasn't convincing (or male enough). I've never had any issues.
I've never encountered people who thought it was hard either. I run into a lot of people who prefer to play their own gender, because it's comfortable and familiar. They could still play the other gender just as easily, they just don't want to.
The only people I've ever heard having this issue are 12 year old girls and boys just learning how to write stories and roleplay. Otherwise, this issue is not something I've ever encountered or had an issue with myself or with players in my games.
Last edited by Strude; 08-10-2013 at 02:18 AM.
There! It's uncomfortable and unfamiliar, which makes it just a bit more difficult.Originally Posted by Strude
I didn't say it was a superhuman feet the likes of which is completely unheard of, I'm just saying it's an extra hurdle.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
I don't think comfort zones lend to difficulty. I'm not comfortable roleplaying scat, but I don't find it particularly difficult because of it either. I can easily write an uncomfortable scene and find it easy.
I'm not saying everyone finds it easy, or lacks difficulty. I just don't think it is as difficult as you and Xavi seem to make it, nor is the ability to do it well something that is rare either.
I also don't think it's all that much of a hurdle. It's just there, it's not rocket science . . . it's not even all that much harder than wiping you ass in my honest opinion.
Wiping your ass with sand paper, maybe.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Woo. Back from my weekend getaway. It was... well, interesting. I can safely state I am 100-percent positive that I am uncertain about my relationship. Bleh, why are relationships no where near as glamorous as the ones seen on TV? Oh, dats right, it's TV. XD
Speaking of TV, does anyone have any good show/anime recommendations? The only shows I'm watching right now are Suits and Covert Affairs. Anything interesting I should look into?
What are ya in the mood for, Xavi? I've been watching a lot of new and old anime on crunchyroll lately and am up for throwing suggestions at you!
I am currently watching The Rose of Versailles, a title originally airing in the 70's, so it's a nice contrast from what is currently airing. The story begins focused on General Jarjayes - so desperate for a son to preserve the family name and noble standing - names his newborn daughter ''Oscar'' and chooses to raise her as a boy. Fourteen years later, Oscar is a masterful duelist, marksman, and the newly appointed Commander of the French Royal Guards. Her first task: to protect Marie Antoinette, who is engaged to the French prince and future king, Louis-Auguste.
I'm about twelve episodes in, and I love it! I personally am a huge history buff, and the story surrounding Marie Antoinette is so romantic, yet so dark it keeps me enthralled every episode.
But as far as well received new shows, I would recommend either Attack on Titan or Free! Attack on Titan is more action based, and Free! is that good ol' fashion slice of life fun focused around extremely pretty boys.
Hope that helps!!
And I hope you have not a single still moment.
Watch: Orange Is The New Black. I loved it, watched every episode in two days it was amazing.
All these suggestions sound great! I usually prefer historical or mystery anime but I do love my dramas and action/adventure stories too!
Have either of you watched Sword Art Online or Carnival? Those were VERY popular at the small anime thing I went to.
I loved SOA. Also, I'm not super into history stuff, just because we all know Oscar will inevitably fail. I mean, it's not a spoiler, it's historical fact.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
I haven't had a chance to check out either of those, but I do hear about SOA all the time, so I should really give it a once over!
And I hope you have not a single still moment.
Try animehere.com I know they have it subtitled. I haven't found any dubs yet.
Also, an abridged series just started on youtube, it's alright.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Not too much on my end, you?
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
I'm going to assume the suck is to be taken in the non-sexual although less pleasant context and not get mildly aroused.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Ha ha. It was definitely the suck as in "not looking forward to it as it will be a long, hard day."
You know how hard it is to explain suck? It's hard. I was thinking, "not looking forward to the day as it will blow." And then the one I posted has hard.
ANYWAY,
I had a cookie this morning. It was yummy. B|
Is it bad that I like deadlines? They get me off the computer and working on projects XD I can make my own deadlines, but in my head I see 'oh, this doesn't really have to be due until xxx date'.
One day I'll trick myself...
Yes, in other words I keep putting off my cosplay... At least the wig is almost done XD
I haven't updated that at all lately... I really should, though the only progress I've made sense then is half the weapon is cut out in final pieces, my first wig is now a test wig and the second wig I have is now almost done being colored after trying 4 different techniques @.@
I didn't think it would be so hard to dye a red wig black... Anytime I don't want something black that's how it ends up...
I should work on blog posts while I wake up though! And check my RPs.
This isn't something that should really come as a surprise to you XD
I think I'm missing some of my characters... Though even if I get all of them posted, I don't have anywhere near as many as you -.-
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