Login to your account
Okay, I have to ask because it becomes increasingly difficult to be certain these days. Are you a girl, or gay? I'm not judging, I just want to be clear on the matter. Hope I'm not offending you by asking ^^'
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
I'm a chick~! Here's teh proof! But most people mistake me for a guy. Probably doesn't help that I have a dude for an avatar and I really only roleplay male characters.
Only reason I play male so often is because so few women can. I've gotten so used to writing as a guy, I just always default to it. Side note, most of my friends are male. So I'm constantly surrounded by them and I usually pull personalities from them. I think I have a long way to go still before I master the art of being a man but I'm waaaay better than most people who try to pull off a dude. XD
---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------
Oh and no offense! Like you said, in this day and age it's hard to tell who's male and who's female. (Although my asking of the girl SPACE friend should have indicated woman. We women love our romance gossip :3)
Oh that is bullshit, so many women can play males well, that saying so many can't is the most overstated rumor in all of the RP community.
It's not like writing a gender is something magical or takes any skill Xavirne.
Eh, I think it takes skill. If you want to come across as a believable character, you need to have some know-how on the gender you're going to portray. Some people are better than others. Some people can just dive right in whereas others like to do some "research," if you will. And then it always comes down to personal preference. Some people just like what's natural for them and others don't mind flipping things up.
But that's just me. I've roleplayed with people who cannot pull off the opposite sex. Seeing them struggle definitely makes me believe there needs to be some skill involved. Heck, roleplaying in and of itself involves skill. Granted, that level of skill is 100-percent in the eye of the beholder. It really all comes down to, like I said, preference.
EDIT: What I am saying is . . .
If my male character identifies as male and does thing that are normally considered feminine or out of the socially acceptable norm for a male. He is still male and that does not remove from my ability to play him properly. Saying I can't play a male, because my character does things you think aren't "male/masculine enough" doesn't remove from my characters masculinity or the fact that he still self identifies as male.
Playing a male isn't something magical or hard or skill based. Portraying a consistent character on the other hand takes practice. Saying I am unskilled, because my character isn't some cookie cutter standard male template doesn't mean I'm playing a male badly.
Last edited by Strude; 08-08-2013 at 11:48 PM.
As I stated, it's all up to personal preference. What I like and look for will always differ from everyone else, that's common knowledge. And that doesn't make me "rude." People know going into a game what I'm looking for (assuming I'm requesting someone else to play the male). If I don't like how it's coming out, I say something and we change it. Or I just roll with it. I can be picky when I want to but I can also be flexible. I have plenty of girly men characters (friends too) so I know the male spectrum is just as far and wide as the woman one. I think that's pretty obvious, in and out of the roleplay realm. Just look at all the people around us. It's what makes roleplaying fun and interesting. You do get to see other people's interpretations. Some I prefer more than others.Originally Posted by Strude
I feel like I need to clear this up:
Can and will. When a roleplayer specifically states, "Sorry, I can't play male," they are letting people know they won't play that gender. There are a lot of people that say that. Or apologize up front with "Sorry, my males don't always come out all that well." Some people are just self-conscious when playing the opposite gender. We all idolize different men so it's hard to know if you're giving your requested male character justice.Only reason I play male so often is because so few women can. I've gotten so used to writing as a guy, I just always default to it. Side note, most of my friends are male. So I'm constantly surrounded by them and I usually pull personalities from them. I think I have a long way to go still before I master the art of being a man but I'm waaaay better than most people who try to pull off a dude. XD
And my waaaaay better comment. It's regarding my Mene days. Back when I was on there, people would come to me to play males because I was one of a few active females who could play a wide range of male characters. If someone wanted a dick, I could play a dick. If someone wanted a whiny emo kid, I could pull that off. Some people can only play one male stereotype. Others can handle more.
You may want to edit your reply, because I removed that and reworded myself better.
XD I knew what you meant.
But yes, there's a wide range of personalities that can fall under the term male. When I was referring to male, I was referring to the stereotypical male definition (mysterious, tough and cool). Guess I should have been more specific in my wording. Sorry about that ^^;
---------- Post added at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------
Holy shet! It's 11?! I need to go to bed. T_T
---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------
Wait, whoa... my clock is off. Like WAY off. It's freaking 8:21. :\
Okay back to the original point of me saying what I said:
You can't generalize the entire female RP populous like that. You may not venture beyond two extremely tiny communities, but I'm going to inform you that what you said was an extreme generalization that is offensive . . . speaking as a female roleplayer.
You may want to avoid throwing your fellow female players under the bus next time . . . because I don't know any female player who can not play a male character. Vice versa I don't know any male players who can't play a female.
I know people who prefer one or the other, but they can still play either.
So yeah, offended here on behalf of all female players.
Offended in the same way you might if you touch something sticky on a table you through was clean. You know. Offense scale 1 to 10 . . . this is a 3!
---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------
Basically before you make a statement about a vast community of player, you may want to go out an experience the community . . . you know, because Mene and WTF are like maybe less that 1% of the RP community.
Sorry if I offended you, Strude. My comment wasn't meant to be taken so seriously. Heck, when is anything I say of serious matter? I was just explaining my point of view and how I saw things. Greatly over-dramatized? Well, of course, that's me. But I meant no harm by it -- should any women or men out there find my comment rude, I do apologize for coming across to you in such a light. But in all honesty, and like I pointed out several times, I was referring to three years ago. Times have changed. We've come a long way since that day and age so boundaries aren't as defined anymore.
And no thanks! Lol. Like I said, I like WTF just fine. I have no interest in looking elsewhere. If my views are biased and based on small-scale sites, then I guess I'm just biased. Not that I want to be or anything but I really don't have an interest in looking elsewhere for roleplay when I'm perfectly happy here
---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------
Anyway, on a lighter note, I found a cookie. IT IS YUMMY.
Sorry I didn't reply to this before, I was helping Ophelia get the profile for Snow White together. I think it's going to be a fun character but we'll see what you think Xavi.
On a former note: O.O You're cute! XD See, the girl space thing was one of the many small things (that and the mention of a boyfriend) that made me wonder if you were a girl or not. A lot of the stereotypes given to woman are similar to the ones given to gays and I don't like relying on them as a whole, so if you hadn't mentioned a boyfriend my question would've been closer to the classical early-game professor Oak query.
While I agree with Strude that there are a ton of different men and women with completely different personalities out there, certain core differences prevent RPing the opposite sex from being "easy". Most of them are obvious and I presume the general IQ of the people in this thread will prevent me from having to state them. But for example, the way a man and a woman gets ready in the morning is generally widely different, body language is also typically very distinctive and some actions a man/woman could perform are either frowned upon or downright impossible for the other sex (peeing standing up is a ridiculous but adequate example). It's little things, granted, which take more common sense than actual skill, but they're still things to keep in mind.
The vocabulary is also different when addressing the objects and actions associated with each gender. (ex: chuckle/giggle, panties/briefs, breast/pecs...) They're little, generally obvious things, but constantly keeping them in mind without ever making a mistake takes a certain degree of talent.
Personally, I find you play a wonderful man Xavirne. However, I'll be checking out Gretel closely as I am curious how you go about playing a female character.
---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------
Yummy cookie
---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------
Also, being one who RPed on IMVU, WTFRPG, Coloholics, Gaiaonline, Yahoo, IRL and being friends with many RPers both male and female alike which I consider to be talented; I can say that people are generally better at playing their own sex than someone else's. It might not be a world-changing difference, but it's present and notable.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
I LOVE HER. I already accepted and cannot wait for her to jump right into the game, especially the CRACKED section. ;D
D'awww. You're too kind <3 But yeah, I tend to be a sucker for romance (I'm already trying to figure out who I'm shipping Gret and Hansel with... bwah ha ha). And the stereotypes are SO similar. My gay best friend is as much as a sap of love gossip as I am. And Oak. omg, seriously, you have the best lines. Where have you been all my life?On a former note: O.O You're cute! XD See, the girl space thing was one of the many small things (that and the mention of a boyfriend) that made me wonder if you were a girl or not. A lot of the stereotypes given to woman are similar to the ones given to gays and I don't like relying on them as a whole, so if you hadn't mentioned a boyfriend my question would've been closer to the classical early-game professor Oak query.
So true! I actually had an ex read my stuff before. He explained that I was using the wrong terminology. He also explained that there are some things a guy would rarely mention (like talking about periods~!).The vocabulary is also different when addressing the objects and actions associated with each gender.
THE PRESSURE. I mean... challenge accepted? XDHowever, I'll be checking out Gretel closely as I am curious how you go about playing a female character.
Agreed. Was what I was trying to say... but apparently I didn't word it all that well (again, I overdramatize most things).I can say that people are generally better at playing their own sex than someone else's. It might not be a world-changing difference, but it's present and notable.
You really missed the note at the end of my post huh. Oh my overly offended, I'm just more or less irritated by really annoying generalizations about roleplayers, especially from someone who admits to having experienced so little of what the roleplay community is as a whole.
Just sort of saying it's not something you should say, it's inaccurate on a rather large scale.
I'll try to pressure her into posting, I'm curious as to how she'll go playing that character. She asked for help because she wanted out of her comfort zone, but I tried not to strand her too far.
It's not really a compliment, more of an observation, I'm glad you appreciate it thoughAs for where I was; Canada, Ontario, Ottawa.
True, no matter how lovely women are, I have to admit I'm always a little creeped out by the "bleeds for 8 days and doesn't die" part...
Lol, don't stress out, I'm just curious.
I'm glad you agree. But I think mentioning earlier you didn't have that much experience with large RP communities pardons your statement. You've made an observation based on the material accessible to you. Unfortunately, this is the internet, so everyone is entitled to getting offended about anything.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
SORRY! MASSIVE POST INCOMING! O A O
Okay, this is a gender role thing and doesn't necessarily mean someone is unskilled at portraying a man or woman. Your example of waking up in the morning, this does not have anything to do with gender. Who is to say Gordon isn't extremely image concious and spends an hour every morning primping before leaving his bunk to command his soldiers (a female or feminine associated routine). Where as, Cathrine has a more laid back presumably more masculine or male routine. Does this mean that I am playing a male and a female poorly? I don't think so, their gender and their behavour doesn't have to match according to the gender binary we tend of have in our North American culture
My brother came into the room and we started talking about this as I was typing. He reminded me of a GREAT example of what I mean. The sky captain in Stardust. The character is generally assume to be very masculine, aggressive, scary and mean, but you later learn he is a cross dresser and the most flamboyant man around; who additionally still commands the respect of his crew, is a bad ass, regardless of the fact that he's FABULOUS . . . and more importantly no less male than any other man on his ship.
". . . either frowned upon or downright impossible for the other sex . . ." -- Even still this does not make a characters gender any less accurate. Gender is a self identification, and even if the character does something culturally frown upon according to their gender it doesn't make the any less male or female (or any other gender they associate as for that matter). On this note you can have a male body and identify as female. There is a difference between gender (which is in your head) and sex (what is between your legs).
Not many people are very detailed when it comes to gender and sex of their characters, and the distinction isn't always obvious within their profiles (I'm guilty of this). This assumed you can't always say a female player is playing her male character poorly, simply because her character isn't that "cookie cutter male" everyone expects.
Some physical aspects can be described poorly, but this is a character anatomy not their gender. Yes, I agree, knowing how a penis works or a vagina . . . or the fact that buttholes are not self lubricating or that without proper foreplay neither can you just shove shit into a vagina . . . is important but, that still isn't gender that anatomy and sex.
This is something our culture has made up, a man can giggle it doesn't make a male no less male because he giggled. Also, you can't say giggling is male or female, everyone giggles look at how the dictionary describes it:
"to laugh in a silly, often high-pitched way, especially with short, repeated gasps and titters, as from juvenile or ill-concealed amusement or nervous embarrassment."
It doesn't say it is a female or male verb, and the actual most audible sound is "high-pitched" and anyone can have a high pitched laugh . . .and anyone can have repeated gasps and titters in their laughter too . . . not a gender specific attribute.
Culturally, yes, we tend to associate giggles with females and children, but it isn't actually a gender specific action.
breast/pecs - Again not gender specific, not always. Depending on how the words are used, and again this is anatomy /&/ sex not gender.
panties/briefs - Remember that sky captain I mentioned from Stardust . . . panties over briefs man! Again, not gender specific, men can wear panties too!
chuckle/giggle - Covered this, and again men and women can both chuckle or giggle. Chuckling is simply a different sounding laugh: "to laugh softly or amusedly, usually with satisfaction: They chuckled at the child's efforts to walk." These verbs aren't gender specific.
I disagree, from my experience if I had to tell you the gender of a player according to how well they play their male or female characters. I could not tell you whether they are male or female. I've mistaken MANY players on WTF (and other sites) as one gender when they were the other, because of how well they played their male or female characters.
Yeah I reversed that, but you see what I mean.
Generally, I think MOST people are capable to playing the opposite or other genders than their own convincingly. Which is why I think Xavirne's generalization about female players is offensive (Offended in the same way you might if you touch something sticky on a table you through was clean. You know. Offense scale 1 to 10 . . . this is a 3!)
Are the people who play their characters according to their characters profiles, poorly. Yes. They aren't consistent, they're inaccurate (where it really counts), but they're also a minority you don't see often. Especially, if you're playing with people who have half a brain; which assume most of you do.
---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------
Again, this isn't gender specific. A man can comfortably and easily talk about periods, just because your boyfriend doesn't with his friends or with you, doesn't mean a male can not or does not do this. Is it common place, maybe not, but this has nothing to do with gender . . . nor is this behavior specific to men, females don't generally sit around talking about their flow on a regular basis either . . . unless I am bleeding from my crotch and dying of pain, I generally don't hold long winded conversations about my vaginal blood river.
You did not, whatever "overdramatized" is. What you did was generalize. You made a broad spectrum, inexperienced, under educated statement about an entire demographic of players that is untrue and inaccurate.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------
"(Offended in the same way you might if you touch something sticky on a table you through was clean. You know. Offense scale 1 to 10 . . . this is a 3!)" -- Going to quote myself, because, guys, I'm not "that offended". I'm just having a casual debate with y'all.
This is most anyone has talked about anything seriously in a long time.
That last paragraph. If you do not denote the fact your character (despite being male/female) has feminine/masculine traits BUT you depict them using such behavior, you play your character poorly.
If Jack is described in his character profile as a manly butcher from the classical hetero-normative perspective, but your first post involves him playing with his hair / taking a tweezer to his eyebrows / walking with a sway in his hips. You're portraying Jack poorly. The thing is; if I play a female character, do not write anywhere in her profile that she has a bit of masculinity, and she spits in the middle of the street like a trucker in his mid-30s, I'm fucking up. If your character is intended to act contrary to stereotype, all the power to you, but it's those times when it's UNINTENTIONAL Xavirne was talking about.
Also, what Xavirne said was; "Only reason I play male so often is because so few women can." Not "Only reason I play male so often is because no other women can." It was a statement to be taken as 'in general'. You're part of the exception, awesome, but I don't get why you got offended because of an observation like that.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
That's because it's not actually blood. It's the soul essence of the men we encounter of a daily basis. We're all actually soul succubi, that absorb soul essence via proximity to men. Once a mouth we must excrete the unusable essence through our vagina, so that it doesn't seep into our eternal being.
---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------
This I can agree, and I do not think this is inaccurate. Some people do fuck up. I never said people don't, but it isn't something that is ramped in teh community.
Generally though, anyone who takes the time to SPECIFICALLY identify their character as "hetero-normative" clearly has a very strong understanding of gender norms and specific cultural gender roles to distinctly know the differences . . . and I highly doubt anyone describing their character in such detail would fuck up that badly.
I just think in general most people play either gender well enough to be convincing, and easily, well enough to entertain.
---------- Post added at 09:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------
Again, not that offended . . . not the way you think . . . and, so "few women" what few women. Everyone female I have RP'd with on WTF (we won't even talk about anywhere else) can play a male character well. So if we limit that statement to WTF alone, she just generalized all of WTF . . . considering we can all play male character as well as, if not better than, Xavirne.
So yeah, as a female player on WTF, that generalization is insulting to my fellow players. I think more women can play male character accurately, than there are those who play them poorly. I think the entire opposite is true about female players.
I have to disagree on that matter. You have to take into account beginners, people who just don't try to play male characters to begin with, people who lack the common sense and... bla bla bla.
I'd say maybe 30% of the women on here can accurately play a man without him being unnecessarily feminine (nothing wrong with feminine men, what I mean here is that they are feminine to an extreme which goes against their character) or overly stereotypical. A lot of people CAN and DO, but 30% is still a minority.
---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------
Just to be clear I'm not gender-bashing, this also applies to men.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Didn't think you were gender bashing at all. This has been rather pleasant actually.
Good. I like having a legitimate, no hard feelings, discussion over a point or another.
I just wanna make sure I'm not biasing towards one group or another for the sake of not coming off as narrow-minded.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
Okay I'm going to attempt to make two different points about this subject.
1. I don't think playing other genders is as difficult as either of you make it sound. I think it is very easy and takes more common sense than anything else.
2. I think some people have consistency issues. Which I don't directly associate to them being unable to play a gender properly. Writing one thing in a profile then doing something different in-character, is a consistency error, not an inability to play the gender. It is an error easily fixed my editing a profile to account for the changed behavior.
1. While I agree, common sense is a lot rarer than you believe it to be and a lot of people have difficulty properly portraying a character too different from their IRL self. You'll notice that if you RP with 5 characters from a person, you generally know what to expect when you talk to the actual individual. This doesn't apply to all, a lot of people experiment with different personality types, but it applies often enough to be a generalization.
2. Well, consistency issues are proof that you cannot play your character properly (regardless of gender, personality, etc.) If I'm a guy, I role-play a character named Mike who's shy and introverted, but start a conversation with the prettiest girl in the setting with natural confidence and a matching smile, I'm not giving Mike justice. In that context, I'm bad at playing Mike. If you play Mike and - while there is no prior mention of him being a cross-dresser - you have him go to the bathroom and slide his panties back on before straightening his skirt, you'd be equally bad at playing Mike. Of course, these are extreme examples, but those are two wrong ways of portraying that same character. They're both equally wrong due to consistency issues, but the consistency in question is completely different. One of them is because someone is poor at portraying a shy individual, one is because someone is poor at portraying a male.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
So examples like this are consistency errors, I feel could be fixed easily by changing the characters profile to account and explain the behavior. People often forget characters can change, and change as quickly as the first post, and forget to change their profiles. Profiles should evolve with their characters, because sometimes you do things you never accounted for . . . and this isn't wrong either.
Nor do I think characters have to be continually exactly as their profiles, things change, and profiles aren't 100% accurate. You can't always account for all traits and sometimes a character may veer from their profiles just slightly.
Take your Jack example and the tweeking his eyebrows. Even with that basic explanation for the character, you could easily work in an explanation that helps you understand why Jack takes a tweezer to his eyebrows. Maybe, his wife made it a habit of his, maybe she made him very insecure about the appearance of his bushy, manly eyebrows and he now has a habit of tweezing them when they get out of hand. A very simple explanation that isn't necessarily inaccurate either, people have insecurities and develop habits because of them . . . and plus, adds more dimension to a rather cookie cutter character too!
So yeah, consistency wise the original content may have been a bit lacking, but you can account for it and work it in and still be MANLY AS FUCK!
True, but there's a difference between character development and just blatantly fucking up. You have to admit that much.
I freak out about 15 minutes into reading anything about the earth's core
when I realize it's right under me.
1. I've been RPing for over 10 years, I can recall many females (that I knew were female RL) that didn't have common sense. So either I'm some kind of RP unicorn living in a fantasy world of matching unicorn roleplayers . . . or you've had some extremely bad roleplay experiences . . . because common sense isn't as rare as you think it is . . . I'm starting to think I'm a unicorn.
2. Why is Mike no longer a male because he wears panties? Why is it a poor portrayal of a male? Again you're applying gender roles here, he can be male and wear panties, he's no less male. Nor is the portrayal of his gender inaccurate (and if profile is the proof of accuracy, edit it to account for something you may have missed) or unjust.
2A. Also, you have a very limited understanding of what shy people are like (and anime is not a good example). Just so you know, I am both a shy and introverted person, but I highly doubt you'd believe me because I'm not television stereotype shy.
I think people tend to stress individual traits to strongly, and forget to account for the fact that just because you're shy doesn't necessarily mean you lack the ability to talk to a pretty girl or lack ALL confidence. A shy person can work up the confidence to talk to that pretty girl. Let's say that pretty girl turns around with a snide, harsh backlash to his attempt to speak with her. If the shy character turns around the lashes back at her, then yes I would say that is an inaccurate portrayal of shyness. But if the character backs off and is emotionally hurt and loses what confidence the character had managed to muster, then this is more accurate to shyness.
Strict trait association isn't good for a character either, doesn't let a character develop . . . and lets face it, most of us don't have fully 100% fleshed out characters in all our games. Unless we're using RPC's we've played for years, we tend to have basic shells that we build on . . . and stressing about traits and sticking to them so strongly, isn't always a good thing.
---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------
I agreed people fuck up. I know I do. I just don't think it happens as often as people seem to think. I can't actually remember the last time someone fucked up that badly. To the point where they can't give me a rational explanation behind it.
Last edited by Strude; 08-09-2013 at 04:24 AM.
I don't think people purposely forget to update a profile. I know I don't update mine because I like to see where he started and where he ended. If I updated him, I might not remember all the details I had laid out before. Yes, I could copy them but I really don't see a point. I mean, most people know a charcter will grow and change. That's usually what happens. If people are that interested in him, I feel like they are the kind of people who would actually find the time to read the role play. But that's just my reasoning to not doing it.
Okay, straight up that was the most pretentious bullshit ever. Gosh girl pull your head out of your ass. Ain't nobody got time for that shit. [exasperated sarcasm] It's okay to say "I'm lazy".
It is in your benefit and your fellow players benefit to keep a profile up to date where needed. Relevant changes don't require you to rewrite an entire profile, just add the important information to the profile. Edit out non applicable details and you're good.
What good does a profile if it is incomplete. How is a new player, or an old player looking for references, to find this information if the profile is out of date. Profile are reference points for players so they can be consistent in their posts.
The character cut their hair, it's short now, but it was long before. Those are minor details a player references a profile for, and if that profile is out of date you get a slightly botched post.
Not saying to update your profile on a weekly basis, just when things change or develop that are important and relevant in the long term. Like Jimmy was discovered as a cross dresser by post 300 of a game, weeks after you originally created the character. He happened to go through a few events that developed a new hobby he never had upon creation. Sort of an important note add to a profile, I would think.
You ain't got time to update your profile. Well I ain't got time to read your roleplay. Seriously.
Last edited by Strude; 08-09-2013 at 10:23 AM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote