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Thread: Moba: Dota/lol. Etc.

  1. #1
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    Moba: Dota/lol. Etc.

    Idk if this is a popular genre for people on WTF, but... lately, I've been getting more into League of Legends (LOL) as I wait for more people to get DOTA2 keys. (:

    I don't know what I wanted to say, just wanted to know if people here played these games and... if they did, we should exchange usernames and, you know, play together. Of course, if you guys want to play LoL, you'll have to understand that I'm relatively not-try-hard and play very, very relaxed. I'm also kind of a troll.

    But, s'all good, it's for the shits and giggles, obviously.

    Anyway, yeah, just wanted to bring this up 'coz... I was rewatching some of the matches I missed during the DOTA2 tournament (the one that was hosted by Valve with a $1 million prize bowl for the winning team and assorted constellation prizes for other teams).

    But derpderp.

  2. #2
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    My boyfriend wants me to play DOTA2 with he and his brother. No idea what I'm getting myself into. ><;

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  3. #3
    Famed Adventurer Cows Go Moo's Avatar
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    League of Legendsssss yessssss!
    I've definitely played a lot of that and really enjoyed it, but my friends and I have recently found Smite as well which has proven to be pretty interesting (if not a bit jarring to get used to).
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  4. #4
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    @ XAVIRNE :

    DOTA/DOTA2 is always where my heart will be; my first love! But I haven't really played it much (read: at all) since its release from Valve. Even though I really like the game, the community is very off-putting and I can't even imagine what it must be like for new players, who, maybe for the very first time, are getting into such a complex game.

    Still, it's a good game. Always play with friends (five man, pre-mades) and it'll remove the terrible experience of pub players.


    @ COWS GO MOO :

    I haven't actually played League in so, so, so long. And, since the release of D3: RoS, I haven't really played anything else, but I think I'm nearing the end of my D3 phase, lol.

    But, for a little while, when Smite was still in its alpha-stages, I played it and really enjoyed it! Unfortunately, as with so many MOBA games, it's fallen out of favor with me. I haven't even touched DOTA2 in years now, but I will still watch The Internationals and catch up on chatter about meta and whatnot. There's something about the toxicity of the communities that has really gotten to me; it makes me hate people, lol.





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  5. #5
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joonsexual View Post
    the community is very off-putting and I can't even imagine what it must be like for new players, who, maybe for the very first time, are getting into such a complex game.
    It's so true! The beau loves to play it and I constantly hear him complaining about feeders and asses. Apparently one of the teams he played on wanted to kick him because he had died a lot. Sure, he died a lot but the rest of his teammates were all sitting at the base. He was the only one doing anything. -_- He also didn't speak Spanish so they were mad at him about that.

    It's a very cutthroat game, or at least that's what it has become. It's absolutely crazy and the main reason I don't play with other people. I don't want to be 'that one guy' who feeds and screws the team over. T_T

    EDIT: Btw, what character(s) did you play as? I can't remember the chick I played. Someone with a bow and red hair... I think. O.o Maybe she had green hair? Idk... ^^;

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  6. #6
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    @ XAVIRNE :

    It sounds like you're describing Windrunner.

    When I played, I usually picked up support because it took the pressure off of farming and redirected it into denies and harass. It also meant some safe early-game control for my lane/lanes (depends on what kind of support I was playing). But, in general, I mainly played Vengeful Spirit, Shadow Demon, and Ancient Apparition.

    I do (and can) play carries, but, in my group of friends, I'm definitely the least suitable for that role.


    Back when DOTA was a part of WC3, the community felt less awful. Sure, there were people who were unnecessarily rude, but it was, usually, well-deserved. Like, I know when I'm doing bad; I don't have my head so far up my own ass that I can't see how badly I'm doing. And, in general, the calls were pretty spot-on. Nowadays, the community is so populated by children (and immature adults) that every time someone says anything, there's a 70/30 chance it'll be unhelpful, negative remarks. It's like League, but not as bad, lol.

    League is, in my opinion, the worst of all the communities. They, quite possibly, make HoN look good.

    But, I'm digressing. The game was always very competitive because of the team element. I don't like pub games because of my play style. I support in the same way that competitive teams utilize their supports: almost everything is deferred to the carries. This play style doesn't really work unless I know my whole team and we can communicate, so... yeah. Also, I don't like pub players, ha.





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  7. #7
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    O.O That's impressive! Just googled Windrunner and that is definitely who I played as. I liked the idea of playing a ranged character, but I didn't want to be Sniper because he's, well, ugly. I'm sad to reveal that I am one of those people who pick characters based on looks. Oops! I wanted to be the icy looking drow lady, but a friend told me I should be Windrunner because she was easier. Pffft, like any part of that game is easy when you're first starting out. Although, as the game progresses you do start to understand some of the things, like when to haul ass and retreat.

    P.S. All the characters you usually play as look awesome.

    I have a feeling there are a ton of characters, as I have never seen any of those in the games I've watched Andrew play. Spirit Breaker, Riki, Sniper, and Faceless Void seem to be the ones Andrew always runs into. He plays Death Prophet, all the time. And whenever I ask him to change characters up (because she gets boring after a while) he gets upset because he doesn't know the character. Can't learn more characters if you only play Lady Death~!

    It's crazy how a community can really ruin something. I was a Hetalia fan for a while (a bit off topic, I know), but the community pretty much ruined the show for me. The trolling and stupid things people did (they decided it would be a good idea to dress like Nazis on a holiday weekend and 'take over' a park -- like seriously, who thinks that's a good idea, ever) just made me what to avoid the community. I feel like DOTA/LoL is similar. Heh, even World of Tanks is the same way. I don't play that one, but I'm told the community isn't the nicest.

    If only you could mute text... then the games would be fantastic! Although, how would you know if someone genuinely needed your help defending a tower?! D:

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  8. #8
    Famed Adventurer Cows Go Moo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joonsexual View Post


    @ COWS GO MOO :

    I haven't actually played League in so, so, so long. And, since the release of D3: RoS, I haven't really played anything else, but I think I'm nearing the end of my D3 phase, lol.

    But, for a little while, when Smite was still in its alpha-stages, I played it and really enjoyed it! Unfortunately, as with so many MOBA games, it's fallen out of favor with me. I haven't even touched DOTA2 in years now, but I will still watch The Internationals and catch up on chatter about meta and whatnot. There's something about the toxicity of the communities that has really gotten to me; it makes me hate people, lol.


    xD Definitely agree with you on the toxic community part! I always tell people when they're going to get into league that the community when it's bad, it's the worst people in the world x10, but in some ways it's also one of the best if you find the right people to duo/do premades with or at the very least, people you can tolerate for an hour you can have a lot of fun both between the team and with the entire Rift just trolling around or throwing barbs at each other. I've often found streamers (I keep up with esports because I'm a dork) to be some of the nicest people in the world when it comes to fan interactions and teaching people about the game.
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  9. #9
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    @ XAVIRNE :

    Sniper is a terrible character, lol.

    And, fun fact, I started the game with Drow because of her being an "easy" character. I flat out sucked with her; I still suck with her. In fact, I have a lot of irrational hatred for her because of all the games I threw. Yes, I threw those games. I was actually going to stop playing because things were so terrible and I wasn't really making any progress. Well, things really changed for me when I drafted Viper and, from there, I usually just played whoever tickled my fancy.

    What I'm trying to say is: play whoever you want to play. You'll eventually need to learn more than a handful of characters anyway and what was/is easy for someone else is not necessarily going to be true for you. For instance, your play style may be different or you might just, for no reason at all, sync better with a different character.

    Plus, as a beginner, you'll mostly be learning basics (e.g. map awareness, farming, etc). You'll die a lot and that's perfectly fine because you're still learning the game. Nobody starts off destroying everything.

    I think there are around one hundred characters, but I'm not sure. I just know that there are a lot. Also, the reason you might not see the characters I listed is because the game's meta changes every so often and certain characters fall out of favor or rotation. For example, Viper is a terrible carry and very few people will play him (he has a lot of early game strength, but levels off awkwardly and, eventually, becomes sort of crappy support).

    But, yeah, if you want to learn a new character, you should just pick them. I'm not sure how you play, but if you only want to play pretty characters, you could always try Lina. She's a fairly easy character to understand, but the timing on her stun can be tricky and she doesn't really have a good escape mechanism. Vengeful Spirit is also a really easy character to pick up; you don't even have to play support with her if you don't want to (in pubs, I used to turn VS into an off-carry). If you're playing with friends, you should definitely take advantage of the reduced chances for raging and just go with whoever!


    @ COWS GO MOO :

    I mainly played League with my brother and friends; I rarely duo and almost always just ran five man teams. I have noticed that, at higher levels, the unnecessary amount of anger and insults are greatly reduced. Like, at Plat/Diamond, the quality of the players are not only better, but less aggravating on the whole. I mean, sure, there is probably that one person who will chew my head off for the slightest of things, but, in general, that happens far less than it did in the lower brackets.

    Of course, to get that far into the game, most people would have endured more crap than they should have, lol.

    One of my friends is actually dating one of the players on CLG and my brother has met/played with him before (same circle of friends) and he was really, really nice. But, then again, I also believe that it is the anonymous feature of the internet that draws out the worst in people and, with streamers, the anonymous factor is taken away. If they're a jerk, the whole world is well aware of who he or she is, you know?

    One of the main reasons I stopped playing League was because of a friend's friend, actually. We were in a 4-man team and the person I wasn't familiar with in our group would not stop cussing me out. Even though he knew that I was good friends with the other two, he would not let up. The random player even chimed in for him to shut the hell up, but he was such an ass he couldn't stop and just started to go off on the kid.

    I have never been treated so rudely before and the fact that he wasn't a random stranger was really upsetting.





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  10. #10
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    So I think I finally got into dota! After playing a lot of bot games, I found a character I like. Seriously, let me go over my "do not like this" before I reveal the winner!

    Crystal Maiden, eh
    Death Prohpet, hell no
    Lina, eh
    Drow, eh
    Mirana, NOPE
    Luna, nope
    Sniper, nope
    Queen of Pain, pfffft I sucked hardcore as her
    Clinkz, nope super suck with this one
    Windranger, hope
    Spectre, love this character but I'm terrible as her
    Outworld Devourer, love this one too but suck as him
    Terrorblade, LOVE LOVE LOVE this one and need to get good as him


    So who did I end up picking? Razor! Gotta love his little rain cloud. :3 I also really like Jakiro but I'm horrible as him. I'm hoping to use Razor for online matches and then Jakiro on the side with bot matches.

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  11. #11
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    Oh man, I was genuinely surprised by how often Razor was picked during the last International.

    But, I haven't played DOTA in forever. The most interaction I have with the game is when I decided to pick up a stream or video of my favorite players/teams, haha. But, mostly, I just wait for The Internationals to come 'round, haha.





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  12. #12
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    It's the rain cloud. I mean who doesn't want their own personal gray cloud that goes zap-zap? ;D

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    Famed Adventurer Cows Go Moo's Avatar
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    The League World championship is starting 2AM PDT which means I won't be getting any sleep @___@
    I've also been looking into downloading Strife or Tome so that whenever League gets boring I have another MOBA to fall back on.

    To you two, joon and Xavi, I have a question about DOTA 2 since I've never played. How much do the turn rates affect the gameplay/mastering new characters? Aside from itemization and the gold (I heard you lose gold for dying?) I heard that it's one of the biggest differences between LOL and DOTA so I wanted hear from people who have played extensively. In League we don't really have that so it's one less thing that we have worry about when playing someone new.
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  14. #14
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    You do lose gold when you die. You have to kill to get gold (you do get gold doing nothing but it's not a lot). The more you kill, the more you're worth so if you do die you lose a ton.

    It takes time to understand how to play and move, too. He towers are important in the game.

    Uhhh, I want to say more but I'm on the phone so yeah @_@

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  15. #15
    Famed Adventurer Cows Go Moo's Avatar
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    It's alright! I get the whole concept of towers/turrets, kills/shutdown gold, and whatnot but the losing gold when you die thing is rather important and interesting compared to League where you don't really lose anything except time and map pressure! Enchantress, Io, and Morphling look pretty interesting to me but then again I haven't gotten through looking at all the different heroes >___< (so, so many of them). I'm either going to fall in love or get overwhelmed.
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  16. #16
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    I'm not entirely sure what you're asking (it's kind of late and I'm not processing too much), but I'll just go with what I tell all new players, lol.


    1. DOTA2 is one of those games that will require a lot of investment. I'm not talking about a few hours of gameplay. I'm talking about days to weeks to months. This isn't necessarily dissimilar to League, but, having played both games (and a slew of newer games in the genre), I can safely say that picking up DOTA2 requires more commitment. It's not simply about learning all of the heroes; it's the itemization. Unlike League, DOTA2 is more item-reliant and less about specific character choices (although this isn't to say that champion selection won't affect a team). There are far more active items and these items can be game-changing.

    2. For new players, I always recommend playing characters at random. Don't try to "master" a character from the get-go. Get a feel for the game by playing a variety. You'll learn what works for you and what doesn't and you'll build from there. All players have an opinion on what characters are "easy." Don't take what everyone says as gospel.

    3. Read guides and don't be afraid to ask for help. The community is going to be difficult (but you're coming from League, this should be a cakewalk) and, at times, cruel. Just shoulder through. The early stages of MMR (comparable to ELO) are for learning; don't get discouraged because some people can't be polite. This is a guide I would recommend. It's mildly entertaining and it doesn't wax poetry.

    4. DOTA2 will punish you harder for your mistakes (e.g. gold loss). Learn to last hit and learn to last hit very well. Unlike League, where there's no "deny," in DOTA2, your opponents can prevent you from leveling by "denying" their team's creeps. Learning to Last Hit/Deny is going to be an important skill to pick up. I wouldn't say it's the most important skill at lower levels, but it's a good idea to practice and keep this thought in mind.

    5. There is no teleport button. Learn to micro the courier (also learn to know when to buy a courier for the team) and remember to always carry a TP scroll.

    6. The game's pacing is different from League. I can't articulate it very well, but play a few games and it'll become evident that there's some sort of difference. It'll take some time to get used to.

    7. Don't try to apply League logic/familiarity to DOTA2. The only real similarities between the two is the fact that they share a genre. The reality is that they're two different games with different play styles.

    8. Remember when I said you should play whatever/whoever you like? I'm going to sneak in a caveat here and say this: Io was an incredibly popular pick during TI4, but it's a purely support character. Morphling is a lot of fun, but he might not be the greatest first-champ choice. Enchantress is pretty solid though. If you ever feel like the game is just going over your head, I really recommend playing Lion. He's not the most fun character, but he's a good character to start with (he has a stun, a hex, a disable, and a nuke). Tinker is also a fun, early hero to learn, but he'll play differently than nearly every other character because of how the community as "optimized" him. Point being, you should still play whoever and whatever you like, but, as with all games, some characters have a steeper learning curve than others and, given the curve of the actual game, it's usually best not to add another difficulty level to the whole thing.


    I don't know if I answered your question or if I even talked on-point, but these are the main things I usually like to point out to beginners. I don't mention runes or ward placements because those aren't critical to learning the game. They're things you'll suss out and understand as you play more. But, if you have the time, I do recommend reading the guide. It may sound kind of rude at some points, but it's actually fairly on-point when discussing the game.

    I'm seriously hoping this helped more than it hurt, lol. It's a really fun game. I haven't played DOTA2 extensively (I have a really stupid and silly reason for why I'm so reluctant), but I used to play DOTA like it was my life. And, honestly, it hasn't changed so much that what I've learned won't be relevant, haha.





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  17. #17
    Famed Adventurer Cows Go Moo's Avatar
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    Not much I can say other than "makes sense", but overall it was very helpful and I'll definitely look at it when I'm not tired as all hell. It's cool to hear that the game is much more item-reliant though, as that's something that I feel is very lacking in League (they pretty much box you into specific build paths depending on your role rather than making more of their items viable/gold efficient :/ ). I'm not too worried about the community (probably because I've already been told all sorts of terrible things by League Children), but creep denial sounds like a hell of a task when you couple it with last hitting lol.
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  18. #18
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    League is definitely more about the heroes, which is why there aren't many active items. I know they're slowly working to change this, but the game's meta seems fairly locked-in, haha.

    Yeah, laning in DOTA2 is kind of different. You're not only responsible for trying to last hit, but you're also trying to deny the other team. And you're doing all of this while watching for opportunities to harass. It's a lot to take in, but, after a few games, you realize that it's just a timing issue.

    I'm also a huge fan of how supports play and build in DOTA2. I've always thought that most supports in League were little better than a bush-ward. Of course, that seems to change a little, but it's still nothing like DOTA2 where people will run roaming supports. Not to mention, supports in DOTA2 have huge early game advantage and can be the reason for why a team gains early traction.

    Oh god, I hate League's community. I generally dislike most online gaming's community. But games like League and DOTA2 breed some of the worst kind of personalities. Nowadays, I just play CS:GO. Fewer people rage because games are, like, minutes, haha. Plus, the community for CS just seems more chill. It's probably because most of the gamers are older or don't possess a mic and there's not time to type in CS, lol.





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  19. #19
    Imperial Ruler Xavirne's Avatar
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    Soooooo I might have found a new character I like to play. :3


    Look at this beautiful, beautiful creature. xD

    Also, I learned this weekend that I am TERRIBLE when it comes to last hits. I knew gold and items were important, but I had no idea they were that important. So my first game with him I was meh and decided to try him again. Second game? I had 19 kills. I never get that many kills, but I had a ton of gold and awesome items. My third game? I dropped back to my norm of about 2 kills but I had no gold and crap for items.

    Needless to say, I need to figure out how to make those final kills to get the gold because gold makes a world of difference in this game!
    Last edited by Xavirne; 09-29-2014 at 03:30 PM.

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  20. #20
    Noble joonsexual's Avatar
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    I play mostly support, which means low kill count per game, lol.

    I remember one game... I went 0/0/3... I was the worst support in the world, lolol. To put that into perspective: my team's carry had 13/4/21.

    My excuse? It's hard to play while you're eating udon, lolol. I spent like 3/4 of the game inside the base while my friends yelled at me over Skype, lolol. I just laughed and enjoyed my food because I am an A+++ friend. lolol





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