Willing to lend a hand? Or maybe a foot?

So, the thing is, I'm a little curious as to how people perceive my characters. I'm a little worried that certain aspects (if not the entirety) of their designs aren't being conveyed very well. I'm also a little concerned that there may be some misinterpretation (due to poor wording choice, vagueness, etc). So, in part, I'm asking for a brief (or in-depth, if you prefer) analysis of a character (or characters — however many you are willing to do).

Just, tell me, in as many or as little words as you like, what you think the character is like and, maybe, why you think that way. It'd be really helpful if you could give me the reasons behind your conclusion as I'll be able to better understand where I am going wrong, etc.

If you want to comment on the style of writing/style (IE. My use of second-person narratives or trait-oriented displays, etc), that'll also be helpful. I do want to know what people think of the second-person narratives (something I'm trying out... Not sure if it'll stick or if I'll just reserve for special profiles that call for it...).

Aside from that, I'd really appreciate some general feedback on the character (or characters). Constructive criticisms on designs are greatly loved because I'm always looking to improve my way of thinking/writing, etc. Positive feedback isn't necessary (if you find yourself struggling to find something good to compliment, lol) and, to be honest, I generally gloss over "good things" because they don't really serve much of a purpose to me (other than being a huge ego-booster, lol — so if you want to say nice things, I welcome them too, haha).



But yeah, just looking for some character feedback — been really worried about it lately. :/
Any help I can get will be great and largely appreciated! Also, don't worry about offending me with honest opinions. I'm asking for your critiques and I'll take them all with an open-mind. (:


Currently, I'm asking for feedback/critiques on the following profiles:

WANG WEIJIAN
GEUM JIYUL
DANNY CHEVALIER
ELISON JAMES
EASTERN BOSS (Focus on the narrative in the appearance section).

Let me give you my spiel on second person. Don't do it. Most people I know, myself included, will quit a role play if there is someone not using third person. Here's why.

First of all, it makes you look like a total asshole. You probably aren't, but that's all it does for you. It makes it look like you literally don't care about anyone elses' characters but your own because you are singling them out in your writing style. Secondly, it is not cohesive with the rest of the RP. Third person is used because it works the best to achieve this end without switching POVs. Finally, it's confusing. If everyone were to use second person, or were to use a mix of first, second, or third person you wouldn't really know what was going on. The narrator would constantly change.

Second person actually gets laughed at. Do you notice the lack of second person books out there? It's because it it gets painful to read. You could be the best writer, but second person is going to bring you down. It's mostly used in language, not in writing, if that makes sense.

Also, let me add this. I skimmed over a character to see how you used second person. I also wouldn't recommend it in you profiles because you assume people's actions that might not be the case. One of the golden rules of role playing is to not take over other people's characters. By writing in second person you are breaking that rule. As a reader, it pisses me off! Informing me, controlling me, assuming that looking at this character scares me and that if my eyes met him across the room I would be flustered and blush but keep looking? No! I chose if my character, or I, do this. Not you. And that is why second person sucks. It alienates the reader. It controls them. I don't like it, and I'm sure it urks others too.

I have tried role playing with someone who wrote in second person. It did not last. I broke it off because of all of the reasons I just listed.

While I appreciate the critique of second person utility, I just want to make mention that:

I would never use second person in an actual post.

But, perhaps, that's irrelevant to your taste and disposition. In any case, thanks for the feedback/in-put on second narration.

I'm willing to help! Let me go read everything, and I'll come back to post. :D

I've updated the first post to reflect the change in links to profiles. I just realized that some of the original links were outdated. O___O

Coolness. Let me first say that I hope everything I say here is helpful and received knowing that, even thought I don't know you, my aim is to help and encourage. This will not be 100% grammatically correct, as I don't feel like editing, hahahahahaaha.
NOTE: I haven't read any of the RPGs these characters are in, so I may not have a full grasp on the characters. There tends to be some distance between how a character appears on a page and how they live on a page. The story fragments you've included will help minimize this problem, but please forgive me for any misunderstandings this may create.

General Fabulous-ness:
*Something I really liked about your character sheets is how long they were. A truly "human" character will demand more than a paragraph description. No real human can be fully described in that brief a period, so why do we think realistic characters can be? You gave your characters your time and effort, and it paid off.
*Thoughts on 2nd person POV in GENERAL in any type of literature: This is not so bad a POV as some may suggest. 2nd person in literature creates a new character - the "you." Of course, the writer cannot control what the actual reader is doing. We must suspend our disbelief! To assuage the more sensitive readers, you could possibly give unusual physical details to the "you," so sensitive readers don't get offended.
I think 2nd person can be successful as it has the effect of first person, while creating the distance of third person. The reader feels what the "you" feels more intensely because, at some level - like all people, they are connected to the word, "you." It reads as "me" somewhere deep inside, so when a piece says, "You feel your heart flutter as his fingers brush your bangs," the reader feels this a bit more intensely. )This can be "abused" by the writer, though, creating a hostile reading environment. You did not do that. Though, maybe someone could in the case of horror story without coming off as overly aggresive.) Similarly, people respond more intensely to the "I" in a 1st POV because we, generally, want to connect to other human beings. Like I said, 2nd person allows distance, too. That creates mystery. We readers can all ride along as a "you," but we cannot be the main character or person of interest, which makes it very much like third person. It gives off a pretty neat effect when using 2nd POV to display a character for the first time. Though, giving the first person point of view to a minor character has pretty much the same effect (think "The Great Gatsby").

General Advice:
*Some sentences here and there lacked clarity. I would reccommend reading over your character sheets to see that it's as pristine as you can make it. I think I still got the gist, though.
*Some RPG-ers seem to act as though their characters know everything about the personality of other characters. Such as, if character Bob walks into a room and says, "Hey, man, what's up?" another RPG-er will have their character mention that Bob seems to have a secret or is shy or something - something that was only specified as Bob's thoughts or on Bob's character sheet. I'm sure you've probably noticed this, but I thought I'd mention it because this can make it seem as though Bob's creator made Bob seem shallow or displayed Bob poorly, when really other players really weren't playing fair by "giving" their character's info (or a hint at info) that they would not have known otherwise.

My Thoughts on Specific Characters:

WANG WEI-JIAN

He seems really well-rounded, very un-Mary Sue. His job and hobby, for instance, don't seem to fit together neatly in soceity's preconceived notions. Immediately, that makes the character beging to ring true with the world around us. Do we expect our doctors to go home and watch old episodes of ER and read medical journals? Generally, yes (unless we've seen too many episodes of Grey's Anatomy). Is that what they do? Not so much. (This might not be the best example, but...) THAT is what makes a character seem real, when they escape the preconceived ideas we may not have realized we had. Knitting, for instance, seems to be something an antiquer would do on their free time. Not street racing. I really think that the concept of the unexpected in your character is fabulous. (BTW, I may use the word "fabulous" a lot, so forgive me.)
Not only is his job/hobby relationship interesting, but he defies stereotype, too. He's magnetic, but at the same time the narration states, "You don't say anything, but you notice that his social skills aren't exactly as amazing as you thought they were (his voice also isn't the vocalization of chocolate sex), but it's not those things that attract you to him." He is not Eros, so to speak. He's just a man, and that makes him read well as a character. Also, he has restrictions in regards to his abilities. This is also pretty dang awesome. I'm not sure how I feel about his backstory, ONLY because lots of characer have tragic backstories. What will make that backstory a fabulous addition to this character is how it affects him and plays into his choices.
MINI RANT: Something I REALLY liked about this character was how you were anthropologically correct about his appearance. Yes, yes, we all know that some Asians can have light eyes (normally in albinism or accompanied by vision problems), but when a character lives in the "real world" and is not in the fantasy genre, I expect to see the "real world" in their makeup. (Not to say albinism, etc aren't real.) Dominant traits are dominant, recessive traits are recessive. What I mean is, I flinch when someone's parents are described as having red hair (the both of them) and the character has black locks when basic human genetics are covered as early as middle school. The fact that you gave your character colored contacts, instead of giving them mystical teal eyes, is refreshing.

GEUM JIYUL

I appreciate the fact that you listed "rejction/lonliness," as one of his dislikes, given that he is an only child, and they seem to have that problem a tad more than your average fella. This shows the type of understanding that writers should have of humanity. (This does not mean that I think deviating from what is statistical is a sign of a bad writer, though). However, I do think that he risks being a stereotype.
The more I read of him, the more I began to see him as the "arrogant-for-a-reason hottie." In romantic movies they are normally successful business men who win the girl only after she's knocked him down a few pegs. It hit me the hardest here: "And when he applied to schools for their architectural programs, nobody was surprised. Ji-yul, who had always been a visionary with designs, was an easy pick. His work as a freshman was astounding (winning the attention of many different companies) and his style, like his person, was refreshingly unique. They were simple, but tasteful — eye-catching. " I believe that many people can be successful at an earlier age than their peers, but his physical attractiveness, mind blowing skill, and mind blowing popularity all came together being a bit Mary Sue-ish. Being selfish is all that saved him from Mary Sue-dom, but this same trait thrusted him into the role of RomCom stereotype. While that may sound like I'm totally bashing him, I'm not. Archetypes are still used over and over because something in them hits readers/viewer where it matters. His girliness is a good touch, but I think he could use a few more traits to make him seem tangible. I think he's a great character with loads of potential, but right now he doesn't offer much beyond what many stock characters already have. I think a great way to supplement this character would be to give him an unexpected flaw that would break the RomCom mold, and also consider adding an unexpected blessing that, perhaps, he is ashamed of. Maybe he is secretly nervous most of the time? Maybe he's secretly empathetic, which would make his selfishness something suddenly quite complex. All in all, though, he is a "fake." So how much of what I've read into him, of what is even on his character page, is who he really is?

DANNY CHEVALIER

I think this is a very good character. He has self-made conflicts, like how, "[h]e keeps important things close to his heart (because he doesn't want to burden his loved ones with his problems), but, at the same time, expects people to know what sort of pains he's suffering from." Also, he seems well rounded in general. The only issue I saw here was that, "...Danny, who understood their position, never once blamed any of them for their brutal treatment. " While young children are more prone to accept blame for things that are not their own responsibility (like family members not acting like family members for the sake of their own convienience,) this changes when they are older (unless poor treatment continues, then these thoughts will probably continue for a longer period of time). Psychologically, it would make sense if he looked back on this part of his childhood with a bit of resentment. This is nitpicking, though, as I don't know how much this part of his childhood (was it about a year long?) even has to do with his present.

ELISON JAMES

I think that this is a good character. Not Mary Sue-ish at all, nor is he stereotypical. Some people will see all strict characters as one giant stereotype, but that's not true. Nor is it true for Elison. He's unique in many ways, but what struck me as very important to his humanity is that, "Still, despite his words (harsh as they may be), Elison has always thought that every man on his team an invaluable asset -- an irreplaceable individual." A stereotypical strict character would see others mostly as tools, or only as either a 1. Deviant or 2. Obediant. The fact that he sees these people as individuals gives him a softness that most strict characters don't have. It peppers him with that bit of complexity we all refer to as "humanity." Also, I really like that he has true drawbacks and ramifications to his power. On the topic of his power, it's very interesting that he is a strict and "righteous" individual, yet he plundered the minds of his family members (though some of that was as on accident perhaps?), and is willing to break other rules. This makes him seem contradictory in a way that is, again, very human.

THE EASTERN BOSS

You said to focus on the narrative in the description part, so I didn't read anything beyond that, so I wouldn't use the rest of his page to alter how I read this part, also I was getting antsy to go get dinner. :P
He comes across as the type of man who has ample amounts of self-control. He lets you see exactly what he wants you to see, which would be why he is so warm and charming at first. He also appears to be the type of person who by-passes steps in a relationship to hasten to a point of familiarity. "The first time you met him . . . no one else's fingers — long and spindly — could lock so perfectly with yours like his did." Now, this first paragraph of description sounds as though everything is happening at the first meeting, which would mean that he's holding hands with someone at their first meeting. If that's not true, then the familiarity thing may be wrong.
Something I've noticed, though, is that not every type of person will let someone reach that level of familiarity that soon. This would imply that he is good at people watching and speed reading people. This is a good trait in some people, (cops, writers, counselors), but we can see that he is villainous, and probably understands what "type" of person folds best under his charm. This shows intelligence as well as a high level of organization and planning skills. I'm not sure what else to say about him. The intelligent and charming villian is a bit of a stereotype, but most of these villans aren't so calm and patient as to wait and marry their victims and be done with it. It's interesting that the victim's whole family seemed to be on to him. This makes him stand out among charming villians, as he had the confidence and power to know he didn't need to convince anyone other than his victim. Though that reminds me of domestic batterers, and they will sometimes pull their victim away from the rest of their family so that no influence can sweep the victim to safety. I'm not sure if that's a move you want to add to his villianous tool box. There is something definitely interesting about him, though. I have nothing to say about his heterochromia, except that it makes me think that maybe he's not completely human since humans can only have "red" eyes when they have albinism or have "red brown" eyes, which is just a really warm brown. Maybe I was being too literal, there, though.

Sorry that took me so long. I was called away from the computer several times. I hope that was helpful in some way. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. :)

Wow... That is one of the most thorough critiques I have ever received. I am humbled by the time you've given me. Truly, this is a very rewarding experience — thank you.

To be honest, I had wanted to attempt the second narrative because the effects it left in the Eastern Boss's profile (an unfinished piece, lol) was a nice touch. A bit different from what I'm used to (and, some times, a change is necessary). But when I did it for Jian, the profile felt a little lacking and I had wanted a better perspective of people's opinion on the second narrative.

I had been concerned with the second-person being more "invasive" than the third, but I was, at the time, getting a little frustrated with people deliberately misinterpreting or over-reading into my characters. I wanted a way to present a character that said: This is what s/he is like at an impression (because not all characters will, immediately, know each other). I had wanted to mitigate the issue of: I CAN SEE EVERYTHING THERE IS TO SEE ABOUT YOUR CHARACTER!

Unfortunately, the RP didn't last long enough for me to see how things would have turned out (and if people would still overreach). Haha...

WEI-JIAN: Haha, yeah, I really skimped/rushed on his background. ^___^; I can't quite remember what I had been aiming for, but, rereading it now, it's not really the best I could have done.

GEUM JIYUL: Jiyul has got to be one of the characters that top my list of: worry-worry-worry. When I drafted him, I knew, exactly, how to develop him and what directions I would take, but my personal thoughts aren't exactly transparent to the other players and I had worried, endlessly, that he was (based off of the profile) becoming increasingly more 2D (and bordering the dangerous territory of flat and boring). At this particularly juncture, though, Jiyul has colored in more (vis-a-vis the role-play) and that original fear has subsided — somewhat.

To explain my decisions to draft him the way I did: I wanted him to appear almost/nearly perfect. I wanted to give off that sense of: This is one of those kids that other people see or hear about and then come to envy. He's good at academics, good at sports, and has all the social skills to charm your pants off. But, at the same time, to stay true to some of the Gemini traits I was required to have, I made sure the readers (not necessarily the characters) knew he was a vain and frivolous individual, who is narrow-minded and judgmental (this comes across better in the actual RP than in the profile... as I couldn't find a way to fit it in without breaking flow... lol).

DANNY CHEVALIER: Ahh— Danny. In relations to his history, the word "burtal" may have been overkill. I simply meant that he had been shuffled around a lot and he didn't really fault the other families (having a more serious, self-defeating attitude). But his aunt and uncle were, more or less, good to him — clothed him, fed him, and brought him along for vacations, etc. But, I agree. Danny should have more feelings directed towards his past (and the feeling of neglect should play a slightly bigger role than it has). In fact, if you hadn't mentioned it, I might have forgotten entirely. As the RP has progressed, his past has receded to a point of almost invisibility (how did that happen? Don't even know)... lol. Because his cousin is also in the RP (played by a different player), I should have a better opportunity to regain some footing on this front. Mild resentment that she has a family and he doesn't. Something like that. Something, lol.

ELLISON JAMES: I don't have much to comment on Ellison's critique, lol. He had been a fun character to draft up, but, unfortunately, fell to the way-side as the RP never quite got off the ground. ):

THE EASTERN BOSS: No worries! I hadn't finished his profile, LOL. And, as I've already mentioned before, I had put him there for reference and not necessarily a full-character critique. Hn, there were a lot of awkward/confusing word-choices/phrases in this profile, lol... I had wanted a sense of "quickness" when writing that first paragraph. As if everything had occurred in a shorter span of time than expected or ordinary.

Seeing as the RP never went anywhere and everything just flopped... it wouldn't hurt to just share what the EB was meant to be. He was supposed to be a misdirect in the plot. People look to him as the murderer and initiator of the gang wars (the RP revolved around three gangs), but he wasn't, lol... And, wow, you've read further into the character than I would have expected most people to do — I'm really impressed. I dropped/sprinkled things here and there, but I figured most of it would just go over the heads of most players! Haha, really amazing. ^____^

As for the heterochromatic eyes... the setting had a slight supernatural twist to the whole thing (that and I got lazy with picture-hunting, lolol....)




In terms of questions.. I only have a few. So.. a bit more of your time, if you don't mind.

First, if you were the creator of the RP that Geum Jiyul was part of — would you have had a problem with this profile (pre-explanation)? And, if so, is your biggest objection his blatant "flawlessness?"

Second, for second-narratives — specifically Wei Jian's profile, was the description clear? AKA did you have a strong grasp of his character or was he vague and barely-there? Or, perhaps, it was too much and was too overwhelming?

And, again, thank you! I really appreciate your effort.

I'm glad that my thoughts were of some help. :) I really like your characters, and am glad to see that you didn't feel down and out because of my critique - which I guess might always be a risk when offering constructive criticism.

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First, if you were the creator of the RP that Geum Jiyul was part of — would you have had a problem with this profile (pre-explanation)? And, if so, is your biggest objection his blatant "flawlessness?"

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I hadn't thought about that actually. Hmmm, I think I would have an issue with it, but I probably wouldn't bring it up. I don't think I'd alter the way my characters communicated with that character nor the way I'd communicate with you over it, either. My biggest issue as an RPG-er would be that I'd worry that the character creator wasn't taking the craft of the game seriously or that they had made a character of who they wished to be (even if they are of opposite genders, different races, etc) which is an issue mainly because that generally leads to writers being so mentally tied to the character that the normal pitfalls of character communication (ie - when characters just don't get along) would not be taken well. I would also be slightly worried that the character creator would not be a team player, but would only enjoy the game as long as their character was pampered and loved both in and out of game. I've once seen a player state in an OOC something to the effect of "Why isn't everyone excited about my character?!"
It's one thing to show support and to even make fanart for other RPG-ers characters, but . . . basically it's just that I'd immediately wonder, "Is this just some sort surrogate narcissim your asking us to feed?" And don't get me wrong, I'm fine with offering people support, but something about that irks me. I guess it's kinda prejudice, but that's the first thing that would pop into my head were I to find this a "too perfect" character in an RPG I started.
I didn't think that about Geum Jiyul, probably because I had read another character sheet before his and had a bit of a feel for how you create characters, also I saw that he was part of an Astrology based game, which made me think that perhaps you had only made him very close to type.
If you don't mind me saying (and this will seem off topic at first), while I don't believe in astrology, my father and I are both pisces types (born in the Pisces time and everything). We were talking one day about this, and I mentioned how we're supposed to be super cuddly and nice all the time. I told him that I wasn't too sure about the accuracy of astrology because both he and I have a "bit of an edge." He said, "No, no. It's not that we aren't nice. It's that we know the world isn't." And I realized that he was right. From day to day, my level of gruffness tends to be directly related to the level of cruelty I see around me that day. I don't absorb it, I respond helplessly, with a bit of "fight" since "flight" from this world isn't really something I'm keen to. For example, if I see an article in the morning about how someone murdered a kid, my mood is devastated the rest of the day, and I might find myself frowning at, snapping at a friend because I'm so affected. I can't fix the world, and so I come off as mean sometimes, when really God has given me so much compassion that I'm kinda a "bleeding heart." I just don't know what to do with in the face of the cruelty in the world.
As I understand it, when someone has a trait in surplus it often will sprout "symptoms" that seem against type. Like my and my father's false callousness coming from the compassion we have.
As creator's it's hard to convey this without risking that our audience won't "get it," but as my dad said, "Write for multiple intelligences." If you aim for the smartest person, others are left out, if you aim for the slowest, same deal. Try to have something in there for everyone. Authentic characters will have this type of complexity, I think. But creating characters like that are easier said than done.
If a writer is outside of that "type" of person they are creating they will probably imagine that "type" in a different way than it really is (at least at first). For instance, if someone who is generally calm moves to create a character that is always nervous, they may present the character as a trembling mess. However, in real life, a character who is massively nervous may seem very calm, as they have probably made a life for themselves, a life of limitations and imaginary safety, where they are in control enough to act normally. The key is that they did this out of their massive anxiety. Anxiety has shaped their way of life, but it seems as though they are calm because of the precautions they have made to feel safe. Only in certain situations (situations outside of their safely built life) will their huge amount of nervousness be made plain. A different character with moderate amounts of anxiety will probably jump at car horns and seem like a mess sometimes, when really the first character is the one who's is very anxious. What trait does your character have that would act the same way? This would not make him any less "Gemini," in fact it very well might make him more "Gemini," and also more authentic as a human.

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Second, for second-narratives — specifically Wei Jian's profile, was the description clear? AKA did you have a strong grasp of his character or was he vague and barely-there? Or, perhaps, it was too much and was too overwhelming?

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I thought that the description was very clear for Wei Jian. The Eastern Boss's piece was slightly less clear, maybe, but that was a shorter piece so it makes sense that I would feel I don't know him as well. Like I said before, when using 2nd POV, you create a new character, the "you."
The "yous" that you are picking are aware enough of the characters they are describing to make your descriptions effective. I think you know how you want your characters to come across, so, perhaps subconciously, you pick a "you" that will be receptive to everything you're highlighting in the main character.
Your use of 2nd POV is well handled, I think. Occasionally it seems overwhelming, but not in a bad way. When the "you" experiencing The Eastern Boss was dying, her(?) desire to remember T.E.B. as a beautiful creature said as much about him as it did her. That was an overwhelming moment in a way that is useful to a writer and a reader as it cements the experience. The type of moments that linger in a reader's mind are always overwhelming.
The narration itself was not ovewhelming. I think 2nd POV gets overwhelming as a narration style when the acts depicted are, in themselves, overwhelming. It would have been too much if you described the act of the murder, for instance, but since you didn't you created enough of a space between the "you" and the reader, making it the right type of overwhelming (the emotional-connection type, not the aggressive type). Any scene that is graphic in anyway (a sex scene, the act of a murder, etc) would cross the line in 2nd person. Anyway, you haven't crossed that line, and I think your experiments in POV are pretty dang cool.