Intrigue in RP

Hello all! Since I'm poking my head back into the WTFRPG forums again anyway, I've been itching to discuss how to RP out/write intrigue and figure I may as well see if anyone has any thoughts on the matter!

First off: by intrigue, I am referring to things like palace intrigue, or intrigue within workplaces/etc, the sort of thing conjured to mind by Game of Thrones/ A Song of Ice and Fire, but theoretically in any setting.

I've always wanted to be in or run a game with plenty of intrigue in it, but it occurs to me that there are so many problems inherent in getting any good intrigue out of forum RP:

1. If the game is explicitly geared towards intrigue, it's easy to metagame even unconsciously and assume that everyone is your enemy. The player might read more into every sentence than is reasonable for their character. There might be little room for characters who aren't part of the intrigue game.
2. Unless there's a large cast in a wide variety of roles, intrigue generally involves minor characters like staff/servants, random people paid to do things, etc. If you've got an intrigue-focused game where everyone's a fancy pants noble, who's going to do the dirty work?
3. Not just for metagaming reasons, but to keep the game fun and interesting, secrecy in what characters are doing really has to be maintained. Otherwise everyone knows what everyone else is doing. Perhaps secret interactions could be conducted in PMs, or private "rooms" like WTFRPG has. But then you're losing a lot of the text that everyone could be reading, and this really gets quite complicated.
4. Any real action really requires a clear decision by a gamemaster, and much more active participation than most forum games involve. There are plenty of games/players where the players trust each other to decide what happens to them, but the more that's kept secret the more difficult this gets. And it means losing a lot of the tension and mystery. Dice rolls could account for success rates, but...it would be more interesting if an outsider conjures up the wildcard characters who players use and interact with, maybe.

I'm wondering--has anyone had any success or experiences with intrigue in RP? Forum-based or chat-based? What works? What has your experience been? Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

I'm bored and could use a good discussion! (:

General late-night, didn't-eat dinner and hungry disclaimer: I might not make sense.


As you've already mentioned, these kind of games are difficult to manage. From experience, they are insanely difficult and complicated and brain-bashingly frustrating. In every instance that I've setup such a role-play, I have, repeatedly, encountered the following things:

1. People are going to be idiots. Everyone wants to be the character that DOESN'T get taken by surprise or caught out of position, which, if you consider the premise of the game, is the biggest problem. If someone posted that they "slinked into a room, careful to keep a low profile, etc," it's like they have twenty police spotlights on their person. Somehow, despite the carefulness of said character, nearly every other character in the game has their eyes burning holes into the back of the sneaky character's head. It's seriously, what the fuck.

But this can go both ways. I've seen it where people will, in their post, explicitly say how NOBODY CAN NOTICE THEM DOING X, Y, AND Z. Bullshit. That's fucking idiotic, especially if their actions are too suspicious to NOT, at some point, be noticed. Plus, it's doing some really shitty controlling crap on other people's character (indirectly).

2. People guard information like it is their very life. Granted, some information should be doled out carefully and cautiously. Like a more modest girl, you don't want to put out on the very first date. But, the thing is, if you're the kind of girl that NEVER puts out for ANY reason, you're also doing it wrong. And, from what I've seen, most people will be on either extremes—too cautious with information or too lenient with information. Either way, it stagnates the story and hurts everything involved.

3. People will still behave like a sheep. You would think that, when given privileged information on things, people would, you know, take initiative or be proactive or actually do something—anything. It's a lie. Most people won't take the information given them and use it effectively or use it at all. Some people will even have the audacity to come around and ask YOU want you WANT them to do with the information. I can't even.

4. People hate plotting. This isn't as prevalent a problem as any of the aforementioned issues, but it does pop up every now and then and, when it does, it's going to kill the RP faster than any of the above. I'm not sure why this happens (because it seems to happen sporadically with no real pattern), but there will be times when critical players (the one who is MOST relevant at the moment) flat out refuse to work with the rest of the cast. I'm not sure what is going on and I can't be certain that they HAVE rejected plotting, but that is how I see it when nothing is fucking happening in the IC and everyone is bitching about it, but nothing is being done. It's inane.


Having said all that, there are some fixes to the problems and these "fixes" have seen varying levels of success or non-success.

1. Play with truly skilled role-players. This sounds obnoxious, but, let's get real for about two seconds, this is the honest truth. There's an inherent difference between a good role-player and a good writer. A good role-player understands the dynamics of a collaborative effort with limited tools at their disposal (e.g. they don't control all the characters or the environment). A good writer understands the mechanics of writing and how to make the most of it (e.g. they know their grammar, their spelling, etc). A good role-player can be a good writer, but a good writer is not necessarily a good role-player. Writers who only write stories are basically people who have never learned to share toys on a playground. They like to play with everything and they like to have everything exactly how they want it to be. This kind of person is the WORST kind of person to role-play mystery/intrigue games with.

In past experience, the best people to RP with aren't necessarily the best writers. I have tons of friends who can wax poetry about the stupidest of crap and make me fall in love with it (their syntax and word usage is like music to my eyes), but, when RP'ing, there are definitely times when I want to beat their brains in.

2. Intrigue/Mystery games are inherently at a higher skill-cap than any other games. This goes to the previous point, but I feel that it deserves its own number. The fact of the matter is: Intrigue games are not for beginners. They're not for the "I have been role-playing for 500 million years and I know my your/you're and everyone fucking loves me" people. They are games for people who have a solid understanding of character placement and story value. A good role-player knows that the important thing to role-playing is not how long they have been doing it or how many games they have taken part in. A good role-player can be discovered by the profiles they submit and then later reaffirmed by their decisions in-game (again, write with good people).

3. Despite EVERYTHING you HAVE to trust your players. As the GM of such a game, it is incredibly important that, no matter what happens, you trust them to do what they need to. I know this sounds so weird since I've had so many issues with people being absolutely idiots, but this is, perhaps, the number one truth to any and all role-playing. If you DON'T trust your players, your players will notice and they will not be there to give you their 100%. If people meta-game a little (and it's nothing too big or it's not a repeated offense), just let it slide. Some stepping of toes while dancing the tango is to be expected.

You also can't be privy to all the things that are happening. Even if you are NOT actively participating in the game (i.e. you do not have a character that is invested in the game. You manage only NPCs, etc), don't ask to be made updated on every thing that happens. Let your players decide some things for themselves. It'll keep it interesting for you and it'll give players a bigger investment into the game.

4. Role-play these games with people you have written with before or has a good reputation. More of the former than the latter. If you RP with people you know, you will trust them more and you will also, probably, know what to expect. Some times, games are not meant for the general public and that is just how it has to be. I guess, ultimately, I'm just going back to the first point and repeating it in several different ways. :/




EDITED: I finally got around to... skimming what mess I wrote. I opted to delete this latter part as... it's really long-winded for no good reason, ha.

"Some people will even have the audacity to come around and ask YOU want you WANT them to do with the information."

That's me, sometimes. Normally, it happens only when just getting to know a new role-player, but still early apologies. XD I view it as trying to be a good role-player, though maybe a weak move. :/

The way you spoke of these games, which I thought mystery was a key component of any role-play unless everyone knows everything, it sounds like something to be avoided until there is a good cast to choose from. :( but maybe wise. I knew someone who didn't even TRY to solve puzzles or riddles and when she managed to then she would then criticize it; I can understand if a character is supposed to be really clever, but the latter could have been done without.

Is there a difference between intrigue and mystery?

@ KRIEMEDEAN : I just want to say a few things, off-topic: I love you. I don't know anything about you, but your prolific and thoughtful responses in this sub-forum makes me so happy and excited and everything. I think it says a lot about a role-player who is interested in setting some time aside for discussing techniques, etc. I just wanted to say this, ha.

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I can understand the uncertainty that comes with handling special information, but uncertainty shouldn't be reduced to a state of: I have no idea what you want me to do with this! It would be so much better if you just puppet me through the experience!

There's a fundamental difference between clarification and simple refusal to take initiative. I am more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings, but I am extremely reluctant to be the one to suggest actions. I want my role-players to come with proposals and ideas. I don't want to spoon-feed them every scene.


While it's true that every role-play has moments of surprise, I think the games Eden was describing (and the games I was referring to) are heavily steeped in back-plotting. There's a lot of behind-the-scene activity that not every player (or even the GM) is privy to. I think a good way to describe these kind of games is to compare the game to Clue. At the beginning of the game, every player is dealt a special and unique hand. This hand is the scope of the player's knowledge in relations to who committed the crime. And, throughout the game, the players are trying their best to figure out the story: who is the killer, what is the weapon, and where was the crime? Except there is one addition to the game: Other players might be plotting to kill you or each other or various miscellaneous things.

Intrigue is, in essence, people scheming and plotting towards some end-goal while mystery is simple the existence of an unknown.

I think that it's difficult to achieve a good intrigue story without planning in advance who is the murderer and other key elements like that. Then again, you could have it play out like a "mafia" or "werewolf" game. I.e.: The killer PMs the mod, the mod makes a GM post stating that "X died stabbed by the murderer"... that's just an example of course, but it would certainly allow for some deal of anonymity. Alternatively, the person could send their more suspicious posts to the moderator, who could post with a "murderer" character. That way the murderer can happily go about his murdering and since the GM is the one fronting the murderer, there is no way of truly knowing who he is.

As for the secrecy, a similar state of anonymity could be achieved by having the conversations posted by the mod under a "conversation" (or something similar) NPC character. The conversation would be sent to the mod, with the names bleeped out, then posted. That way people would know this conversation took place, but who it was between and who they were talking about is left uncertain. In a sense this is even better than never knowing of the conversation. Because if 3 individuals have a conversation about killing another, all the players who weren't part of the convo would be on their toes about their own potential murder and while aware of the 3 murderers, they'd be left wondering who they are, if there are any more murderers, etc.

A good tactic for a group of 4 murderers would be to always have conversations between 3 or 2 members, alternating on occasion, leaving people to believe there are only 3 murderers and when 3 are finally unmasked... BOOM! Another murder occurs. Just imagine the suspense and shock such an event would create. "WTF?! I thought we got all of them! What the hell GM?!" would definitely be something to pop in the OoC.

Just sime ideas, of course... There are some problems I haven't quite adressed yet and I realize this is a lot of work on the GMs part... I'll post again if I find solutions or better alternatives. This was thought of on the spot.